The Life After Leaving Podcast: An Ex-Christadelphian Podcast
A podcast by ex-Christadelphians for ex-Christadelphians. Together, we dive into the history of the Christadelphians, share stories of former members leaving the sect, and cultivate community among ex-members worldwide.
Listen on:
Episodes
Sunday Dec 22, 2024
Sunday Dec 22, 2024
Today we’re flipping the script and Heather is chatting with Zinnia! Zinnia shares her story of growing up as an undiagnosed neurodivergent child and being bullied during her childhood inside and outside of the ecclesia. The first half of this episode is a bit heavy as Zinnia discusses how her environment contributed to severe depression and how growing up in a high control environment among other factors may have groomed her for domestic violence in her relationships. However, things took a turn for the better when Zinnia chose to leave the group, shut down their harassment, reported perpetrators to the police. She also reclaimed her life and her voice by changing her name, moving out on her own, creating a new environment where she could thrive in secular friendships and relationships, and connecting with other ex-Christadelphians in the Facebook community. She also shares her story of living in a haunted apartment, explains why she is skeptical of Christadelphians claiming that they’ll report the criminal activity of other Christadelphians, and about the circumstances that led her to create this podcast.
This episode was also released alongside Episode 13 on Spiritualism due to some overlapping themes and topics. We hope you enjoy this podcast double feature! See you in 2025!
Thank you to Heather for editing this episode!
Listener Discretion Advised. TW: sexual assault, abuse, neglect, domestic violence, eating disorders, self-harm, bullying, depression, profanity
Resources:
Vibe Music:
If I die young Pt 2 by Kimberly Perry
And
The Wolves by Madeline Edwards
On Leaving Cults & High Control Groups:
Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships by Janja Lalich
Unfollow: A Memoir of Loving and Leaving the Westboro Baptist Church by Megan Phelps-Roper
The Sound of Gravel: A Memoir by Ruth Wariner
Educated by Tara Westover
Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Women and How I Broke Free by Linda Kay Klein
Chocolat by Joanne Harris (Okay, this one is more of a role model for living outside religious influence & not bending to that pressure)
Quarter Life Crisis Netflix special, Taylor Tomlinson
The Holy Bible: The Best Damned Version by Steve Ebling
Instagram: religious.harm.recovery
On Sexual Assault:
Know My Name by Chanel Miller
On Childhood Trauma & Relationships:
Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson (And Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents)
Running on Empty: Overcome your Childhood Emotional Neglect by Jonice Webb (Sequel: Running on Empty No More)
The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson
Healing Your Aloneness: Finding Love and Wholeness Through Your Inner Child by Erika Chopich and Margaret Paul
Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller
The Emotionally Absent Mother: A Guide to Self-Healing and Getting the Love You Missed by Jasmin Lee Cori
Mothers Who Can’t Love: A Healing Guide for Daughters by Susan Forward
When the Body Says No by Gabor Mate
On Embracing Neurodivergence, Masking, and Susceptibility to Abuse:
Hayley Honeyman Ted Talk “Unmasking ADHD”
https://youtu.be/fRUkPHnltuI?si=foRFIm5fEK2NumuO
On the impact of growing up undiagnosed Neurodivergent:
https://medium.com/@nikkibutler_autisticjoyologist/the-negative-narrative-and-the-impact-on-being-autistic-adhd-61ce7d4c1d6b
And
https://medium.com/@nikkibutler_autisticjoyologist/bullying-and-autism-adhd-the-shocking-truth-dc9383d5d7b8
Feminism & Politics:
Rage becomes her: The Power of Women's Anger by Soraya Chemaly
On Healing through Humor:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-humor-can-help-you-get-through-hard-times/
On the Paranormal:
Life with the Afterlife: 13 Truths I Learned About Ghosts by Amy Bruni
Do Dead People Watch You Shower? By Concetta Bertoldi
“Ecclesia Safe” Initiative:
https://tidings.ecclesiasafe.org/resources-for-elders/ecclesiasafe-consultation-group-engagement/
https://tidings.ecclesiasafe.org/
https://tidings.org/articles/caring-for-the-vulnerable/
Sunday Dec 22, 2024
Sunday Dec 22, 2024
Today we’re chatting about ghosts! More specifically, about how the Christadelphians have historically tried to disprove the existence of ghosts and the beliefs of Spiritualists to their followers! It’s time for science class with John Thomas as he explains the (now considered pseudoscience) "science" of odology, explains how Jesus Christ (electric medium) used hypnosis on his disciples, speculates on whether followers will be able to be invisible and teleport when they’re resurrected (sorry, you can only hold eyeballs), and how God’s Holy Spirit is actually… electricity. We discover the story of a Christadelphian with psychic abilities and end the episode with the most legendary ghost story to ever be told in Christadelphia! It’s going to get spoooooooky!
This episode was also released alongside Episode 14, Fellowship with Zinnia, due to some overlapping themes and topics. We hope you enjoy this podcast double feature! See you in 2025!
Resources and References
“Other Powers: The Age of Suffrage, Spiritualism, and the Scandalous Victoria Woodhull” by Barbara Goldsmith, Page 78
Some background information on Spiritualism in the Britannica:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/spiritualism-religion
Dr. Thomas: His Life and His Work by Robert Roberts
Popular Figures who were Spiritualists:
https://www.history.com/news/spiritualism-communication-dead-figures
The First Woman to Run for President in the US, Victoria Woodhull:
https://www.nps.gov/articles/the-first-woman-to-run-for-president-victoria-woodhull.htm
Talking to the Dead: Kate and Maggie Fox and the Rise of Spiritualism by Barbara Weisberg
The Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith:
https://christadelphianvideo.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/BASF.pdf
The Oprah Winfrey Show
Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come, July 1852
https://antipas.org/library/Magazines/The%20Herald%20of%20the%20Kingdom%20and%20Age%20to%20Come%20(JT)/Herald52.PDF
2023 Pew Research:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/12/07/spiritual-beliefs/
2024 Article:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4400922-americans-ghosts-aliens-devil-survey/
Last Week Tonight: Psychics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhMGcp9xIhY
Harry Houdini:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-harry-houdini-seances-and-spiritualism-were-just-an-illusion-180978944/
The Ambassador of the Coming Age:
July 1868, Aug1868 and Sept 1868
The Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come by John Thomas, July and August 1852
A Demon’s Guide to Wooing a Witch by Sarah Hawley
Twilight by Stephenie Meyer
The Princess Bride Movie, 1987
Prosopagnosia, medical condition
Jim Jones Healings
https://people.com/crime/jim-jones-jonestown-massacre-demagogue-biography-jeff-guinn/
Rapidash Pokemon
https://pokemondb.net/pokedex/rapidash
The Bible:
1 Kings 19
2 Corinthians 12
Habakkuk 2:2-3
Joel 2:28
Job 33
Acts 10
Revelation 1
Matthew 22
1 Samuel 28
Odology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odic_force
Louis Cahagnet’s “Celestial Telegraph, or Secrets of the Life to Come revealed through Magnestism”
Robert Roberts: A Study of Life And Character by Islip Collyer
The Christadelphian:
April 1869
February 1895
February 1888
May 1887
June 1876
January 1877
May 1955
November 1919
August 1913
November 1926
Spiritualists’ Association Bookstore:
https://nsac.org/bookstore/
The Girl with Silver Eyes by Willo Davis Roberts
The Wizard of Oz (movie), 1939
Spiritualism by Michael Ashton
Read Online at: https://thisisyourbible.com/library/show/175
The Christadelphian, Nov1871
The Christadelphian, January 1872
Medium and Daybreak, Nov 24 1871 edition
Full article provided from the University of Oxford Bodleian Library and from the Hamilton College.
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
Lily Dale: The True Story of the Town That Talks to the Dead by Christine Wicker
Life with the Afterlife: 13 Truths I learned about Ghosts by Amy Bruni
Other Resources:
If you want to learn more about Spiritualism, check out the Dig Podcast:
https://digpodcast.org/category/spiritualism/
Sunday Dec 15, 2024
Sunday Dec 15, 2024
Today we’re chatting with Paul! In this episode, Paul shares his story of joining the Christadelphians with his parents as a young convert, to stirring up trouble in the capital city as a young man handing out pamphlets on the Holy Spirit, to eventually not only leaving the Christadelphians, but eventually becoming an atheist studying theology! Paul also shares his controversial experience giving his one and only public lecture as a Christadelphian, his time as part of a group of Christadelphians nicknamed “the four horsemen of the apocalypse”, and about his thesis project on the roots of Christianity which he started after going back to school *again*. There’s no box big enough to fit Paul into as he’s explored careers, countries, and theology throughout his lifetime. I hope you enjoy this episode and hearing about the twists and turns of his fascinating life!
Resources and References
Harry Whittaker, Author
List of Books here: https://bibliabooks.org.uk/harry-whittaker-books/
Carl Sagan; astronomer, scientist, author, and science educator:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan
Richard Dawkins; biologist, author, prominent atheist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins
Christopher Hitchens, Author
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens
Paul’s website, “Religion Free World”:
https://religionfreeworld.org/
A link to Paul’s Book “On Christian Origins”:
https://religionfreeworld.org/books/
Sunday Dec 08, 2024
Sunday Dec 08, 2024
Today we’re chatting with Luke! Luke shares his experience growing up in a small, insular ecclesia disconnected from the wider community of Christadelphians and singing the same hymns every week. In this episode, we’ll hear about his process of trying to fit into the wider Christadelphian world after growing up in isolation, about his first experience attending an ecclesia that drank Christ’s blood from a shared cup (ew), and on the pressure to leave his new ecclesia and to end his relationship with a non-Christadelphian. We also speculate on his prospects of an American speaking tour, argue for Australia to have its own major winter holiday, and wonder if Christadelphian music will ever be a topic for a pub trivia night at last!? And remember… watch out because the “Christadelphian Police” can be anywhere!
Please join us for yet another fun episode of fellowship among the heathens!
Listener discretion is advised.
Resources and References:
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (Movie)
Sunday Dec 01, 2024
Sunday Dec 01, 2024
Today we’re chatting with Mako in this “mini-episode” on beards and their cultural history within Christadelphia. Mako and Zinnia discuss the experiences shared by some ex-Christadelphians about beards and compare it to the historical views of Christadelphians during the time of Doctor John Thomas and Robert Roberts. We also joke about drag names, the British slang for penis, and moustaches on firemen! Please join us for a chat about this hairy topic!
As a friendly reminder, please be advised that the humor in today’s episode is pretty “worldly” and this podcast is marked “explicit” across platforms. Listener discretion is advised.
Resources and References:
Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life:
https://youtu.be/Xt53afFXbrg?t=74
Dictionary entry for “John Thomas”:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/John_Thomas
The Bible, 2 Samuel 10
The Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come by John Thomas, May 1856, Page 113 “The Gentile and the Jew”
https://antipas.org/library/Magazines/The%20Herald%20of%20the%20Kingdom%20and%20Age%20to%20Come%20(JT)/Herald56.PDF
The Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come by John Thomas, March 1852, Page 62 (782 if using link below)
https://antipas.org/library/Magazines/The%20Herald%20of%20the%20Kingdom%20and%20Age%20to%20Come%20(JT)/Herald%20Jan1851%20through%20Feb1854%20-%20Text.pdf
Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come by John Thomas December 1851 Page 280-281(Page 626 if using the link below)
https://antipas.org/library/Magazines/The%20Herald%20of%20the%20Kingdom%20and%20Age%20to%20Come%20(JT)/Herald%20Jan1851%20through%20Feb1854%20-%20Text.pdf
The Herald of the Kingdom and Age to Come, May 1853, page 119 by John Thomas reprinting “Why Israelites were Forbidden to Shave” from the “Journal of Sacred Literature pp. 65, 66”
https://antipas.org/library/Magazines/The%20Herald%20of%20the%20Kingdom%20and%20Age%20to%20Come%20(JT)/Herald53.pdf
My Days and My Ways by Robert Roberts, page 5, 67, 139
https://www.antipas.org/pdf_files/my_days_and_my_ways.pdf
“Robert Roberts: A Study of the Life and Character” by Islip Collyer
https://christadelphianlibrary.com/products/robertroberts-collyer
Drag Name Inspo and the name “Lourdes Prayer”
https://chelseacommunitynews.com/2021/01/12/the-150-best-new-drag-names-try-one-on/
On my comments on Leviticus:
https://www.jpost.com/jerusalem-report/article-700876
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/africa/03iht-moses.4.5130043.html
On some religions using beards as a statement:
https://dralun.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/the-medical-case-for-beards-in-the-19th-century/
https://credomag.com/2016/07/they-will-know-we-are-calvinists-by-our-beards-timothy-raymond/
The Christadelphian July 1871
https://www.antipas.org/library/Magazines/The%20Christadelphian%20Magazine/The%20Christadelphian%20-%201871.pdf July edition starting page 199, quote on page 219
On the Victorians using hair from the dead for mementos:
https://www.orderofthegooddeath.com/article/theyre-not-morbid-theyre-about-love-the-hair-relics-of-the-midwest/#:~:text=Hair%20was%20sometimes%20taken%20from,a%20year%20and%20a%20day.
Misc Research into Beards:
https://www.theenglishshavingcompany.com/en_gb/blog/beard-psychology-science/#:~:text=Beards%20also%20impact%20perceptions%20of,than%20the%20clean%2Dshaven%20men
Sunday Nov 24, 2024
Sunday Nov 24, 2024
Today we’re chatting with Mike! Mike shares his story of growing up in the Brotherhood with many surprises including sourcing bootleg copies of the Simpsons for the Christadelphian youth group, finding a wife at the Christadelphian nursing home, and about his path to eventually becoming “unequally yoked” before leaving the group. Mike also shares his experience of unintentionally framing the Editor of the Christadelphian magazine for vandalism (whoops) and answers whether or not he saw any unattached beard hair in the Christadelphian Magazine Archives. And of course, he asks the hard hitting questions such as ”...have you got a hat?”. Please join us for yet another fun episode of fellowship among the heathens!
Resources and References:
Praise the Lord Hymn Book: https://www.christadelphianbooks.com/detail/2059
Music can be listened to here: https://www.wcfoundation.org/praise-the-lord
The Book of Mormon:
On Broadway: https://bookofmormonbroadway.com/
Watch online at: https://archive.org/details/book.-of.-mormon.-broadway-upscale-720x-480
Sunday Nov 17, 2024
Sunday Nov 17, 2024
Today we’re learning about the unofficial president of the John Thomas fan club, Robert Roberts. In this episode, we’ll be taking a critical look at whether this famous Christadelphian leader was actually just a follower. I’ll be sharing with you “respectable heathens” stories about Robert Roberts’ childhood, his quirks, and the chance he missed to leave behind the drama of the Christadelphians forever. I hope you’re as surprised as I was to learn the bizarre ways that he honored John Thomas throughout his lifetime, and even in death. I’ll also share a Christadelphian exhortation drinking game, a request for the whereabouts of a lost object, and a story about a legendary exhortation at the Moorestown ecclesia. Please also stay tuned to the end for another “ad” from one of our “sponsors”.
Resources and References:
“My Days and My Ways” by Robert Roberts, 1894
https://www.antipas.org/pdf_files/my_days_and_my_ways.pdf
“Robert Roberts: A Study of the Life and Character” by Islip Collyer
https://christadelphianlibrary.com/products/robertroberts-collyer
John Thomas His Friends and His Faith by Peter Hemingray, 2003
https://christadelphianlibrary.com/products/johnthomashisfriends-hisfaith-hemingray
GIlmore Girls tv series, Season 6 episode 8 “Why did you drop out of Yale?”
“Elpis Israel” by John Thomas
https://christadelphia.net/PDF/jtEI.pdf *fourteenth edition
https://ia803407.us.archive.org/7/items/elpisisraelexpos00thomiala/elpisisraelexpos00thomiala.pdf *ninth edition
Goosebumps tv series, “Welcome to Dead House”
Ex-Christadelphians.com, “Who was Robert Roberts?”
https://www.ex-christadelphians.com/2021/02/who-was-robert-roberts.html
“Escaping Twin Flames” Documentary, Netflix
Jonestown, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
The Christadelphian magazine,formerly The Ambassador of the Coming Age, accessed via https://thechristadelphianlibrary.com/category/digital-library/magazines/ (Subscription required)
-November 1869, free version available to view at: https://www.antipas.org/library/Magazines/The%20Christadelphian%20Magazine/The%20Ambassador%20&%20The%20Christadelphian%20-%201869.pdf
-July 1871 edition, free version available to view at:
https://www.antipas.org/library/Magazines/The%20Christadelphian%20Magazine/The%20Christadelphian%20-%201871.pdf July edition starting page 199, quotes can be found page 217 and 219
“The Early History of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God in Britain with Historical, Critical, and Social Reminiscences of Persons, Places, and Events” compiled by William Norrie, Vol III
https://christadelphia.net/PDF/norrie3.pdf
Ancestry.com, Roberts Family Tree
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/174807481?cfpid=272267503058&dtid=100
Tidings article mentioning Roberts’ son Edward leaving the Christadelphians:
https://tidings.org/articles/robert-roberts-in-north-america/
Coraline (book) by Neil Gaiman, 2002
Coraline Movie adaption 2009
Sunday Nov 10, 2024
Sunday Nov 10, 2024
Today we’re chatting with Leah! Leah shares her story of pushing the boundaries of respectable behavior for a Christadelphian woman by saying prayers at the podium, giving exhortations, and pushing the community to support the fair-trade movement. Leah wasn’t about to let gender roles get her down and now she’s living her best life re-enacting Sister Act, voting in elections, and saying farewell to her good enemies in the ecclesia. Leah also shares her one rule that sets her new standard when visiting and evaluating a church. Please also enjoy a special guest appearance by Leah’s cats… meow…
TW: domestic violence, sexual assault
References & Resources:
Chasing the Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs by Johann Hari
I Don’t by Clementine Ford
See What You Made Me Do: Power, Control, and Domestic Violence by Jess Hill
Leah’s choir performance:
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18G6pRecip/
Ten Steps to Nanette by Hannah Gadsby
Sunday Oct 27, 2024
Sunday Oct 27, 2024
Today we're chatting with Keturah about true crime stories from the Christadelphians! History certainly isn't always boring with Zinnia sharing the history of five notorious Christadelphians from around the world. Just in time for spooky season, let's talk about body snatchers, poison, and even murder...
TW: domestic violence, child abuse, pedophilia, incest, violent murder
References mentioned in this episode:
Story One: John Thomas Story References:
John Thomas: His Life and His Work by Robert Roberts
John Thomas: His Friends and His Faith by Peter Hemingray, Page 90-92
John Thomas’s article in the Lancet on the Anatomy Bill in May 1829 (Full article received via email after contacting Elsevier) https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(02)98765-9/fulltext
Articles on the Richards Riot:
-YouTube video on Richard’s Riot & the identity of the young woman https://youtu.be/CecD1prIOZs
-Patch.com
https://patch.com/illinois/stcharles-il/bp--grave-robbing-riots-and-murder-the-story-of-a-st-19dfeab964
-St Charles History Museum
https://www.stcmuseum.org/history-news/2020/4/18/grave-robbing-gunfights-and-sances-the-story-of-the-richards-riot-of-1849
-The Resurrectionists
https://www.howderfamily.com/blog/resurrectionist/
Story Two: Albert Chernov Kidney Stealing Story:
https://www.haaretz.com/2003-11-26/ty-article/police-believe-organ-trafficking-suspect-has-fled-israel/0000017f-dbf1-df62-a9ff-dff784dd0000
The report on “Jerry” is not publicly available and was sourced from a member of the Ex-Christadelphian Facebook Group. The full section of the report that was referenced is quoted here: “Albert Chernov, baptized by [“Jerry” real name redacted], was financially supported by BBFU (CCM) as a recruiter for the Brotherhood. Chernov was arrested in Jul 2003 on suspicion of rounding up Russian immigrants in Israel and compelling them, with threats and extortion, into undergoing nephrectomies (removal of a kidney). The charges detailed that the organs were sold, by Chernov and his two accomplices, on the black market. [Source: Haaretz.] He was released on bail in Nov 2003 and fled the authorities. [Source: Washington Post.]”
United Nations definition of organ trafficking:
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/frontpage/2024/June/explainer_-understanding-human-trafficking-for-organ-removal.html
Story Three: Judith Ann Venn Murder:
Article 1:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/28/queensland-woman-who-laced-husbands-soup-with-pills-pleads-guilty-to-manslaughter
Article 2:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-04/judith-ann-venn-jailed-for-killing-abusive-husband-spiked-soup/102689162
-Chicago, the musical. Song: Cell Block Tango
Story Four: “Uncle Murder”/ Roger Hammond:
Phoenix New Times: “Mr. Fix-it is Guilty” March 1 1989 https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/mr-fix-it-is-guilty-6412893
Man convicted in Arkansas in Louisville woman's death Associated Press
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/109894222/
Obituary
https://vermontjournal.com/obituaries/roger-hammond-1945-2022/
Story Five: Gary Schaefer Murders:
Book: In The Shadow of Death: The Hunt for a Serial Killer by Philip Ginsburg
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-burlington-free-press-schaefer-plea/41890009/
Podcast: Haunted New England, Episode 10
Podcast: Thrice Cursed: A True Crime and Paranormal Podcast: Heavens'ta Betsy aka Gary Lee Schaefer
https://www.reformer.com/local-news/vermont-convicted-murderer-kidnapper-dies-in-kentucky-prison/article_ec3d2b9c-8dfe-11ee-a2f9-77f7c5811a85.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Schaefer
https://www.newspapers.com/article/rutland-daily-herald-schaefer-arrested/41893267/
https://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/schaefer-gary-lee.htm
Book Mentioned by Keturah:
To Believe In Women: What Lesbians Have Done For America - A History by Lillian Faderman
https://www.amazon.com/Believe-Women-Lesbians-America-History/dp/0618056971
Thursday Oct 24, 2024
Thursday Oct 24, 2024
Today we're chatting with Heather! Let's cozy up by a babbling stream with our favorite transcendental books for this one!
You can visit Heather's blog at:https://callunararis.com/category/religion-spirituality/